Thu 2 Aug 2007
musings on the tenth anniversary of my wedding
Posted by bon under relationship stuff
i like women.
had i understood that on the rainy morning ten years ago when i donned my something borrowed (amethyst necklace) and my something blue (periwinkle dress), and marched myself up that aisle of lawnchairs to say “i will” on a cliff overlooking the Northumberland Strait, then today my life would be…
nah, just kidding.
this is no coming out…i’m not even sure whether the title of this post and its first sentence are connected. this really is my tenth wedding anniversary, but i left that marriage nearly seven years ago. i don’t regret that cottage wedding, nor the civilized divorce that followed deep sadness and unrest in the marriage. and i do like women, quite passionately, but that fondness is a social proclivity on my part, not a missed turn in the road of self-hood and identity. (not that a sapphic confession would have surprised anyone coming back from BlogHer, anyway, with all the boob-groping that’s been advertised as having gone on there. ;)) i once used to swear to my best friend, who happens to like women in a more carnal, committed way than i do, that my ex-husband was my “last man”…because, in my late twenties, straddling the worlds of my second-hand army boots and my wedding ring turned out to be profoundly uncomfortable for me. but when matrimony eventually disintegrated and i went searching for that more comfortable skin, i discovered it didn’t belong to a woman. or any woman other than myself, anyway.
but i still like girls. my friends, my deepest friends? almost exclusively women. this has been true all my life, notwithstanding that awkward and confusing window where Dave was my friend before he was my partner. but outside of the circle of he & i, the people i gravitate toward, talk to most easily, turn to for understanding? women. girls. almost exclusively.
what i’ve been realizing over the past week or so of wild, hectic, almost manic sociability, as i try to catch up with all the pile of girls and women crowding into my world in this brief window, is that i was late in discovering that this was weird. i grew up in a family of women. i drew my soul and strength from the (occasionally fickle) friendship of my girlfriends, and, weaned straight from my mother’s milk onto the sweet cordial of Anne of Green Gables, i believed that all females were as i was, eternally searching for kindred spirits. i had no clue about the discourse of men; the teasing, the jocularity. through high school, i became a self-conscious, stricken moron the moment any guy i had the most remote attraction to came within ten feet of me. i was ‘that girl’ - the slightly awkward one, the funny one, no guy’s girlfriend but an awfully good friend.
and i lived a life of blissful ignorance. because i thought i was - in the way of adolescents convinced that the depths of their keening angst and individuality have never been plumbed by mortals ever before - normal.
it’s only over the past few years that i’ve come to notice that a significant proportion of the female gender don’t generally feel the same way about other women. and it’s starting to freak me out. because i’m hearing it even among my nearest and dearest, even among women i know to be capable of generosity and intimacy, women who are far more than the Shopaholic caricature of shallow feminine superflousness. but the more i hear other women talk about women’s cattiness and cliquishness, the more i notice it, start to be influenced by those perceptions. yet…it’s not as if i’ve been in an attic all these years. it’s not that the closeness and ease of communications i’ve felt among girls and women haven’t been real.
like i said, i’m not sure where i’m going with this.
i know i struggled ten years ago to ratify my notion of self as funky young rebel with the choice i’d made to be married, because “married” to me meant all the social baggage of whitebread and settled. it turned out that i was nearly a decade short of ready to fly that freak flag, which i now rock to the limits of its rather stale crustiness, despite the fact that i officially live in sin.
but the female thing? the friendship thing? tell me, those many of you who said you’d hate going to BlogHer for all the airkissing and arsekissing and cliques, those of you who have long preferred the company of boys and men and the simplicity of how things are supposed to be over on that side of the gender divide, those of you who’ve simply been hurt irrevocably by women…is any part of the distaste about image of self vs. image of norm, about you not being one of those shallow princess-types that other women seem increasingly portrayed to be in our society?
and then…the real question….are they?
just wonderin’. on this day when i look back fondly on my misguided choices of yesteryear, i’m wonderin’ about lots of stuff. and if the kindred spirits thing was silly and foolish all along.
(some of my visitors? made me think yes. others? hell no.)

me & some college roomies circa 1989-92 in my backyard over the weekend. i am, as ever, the one with my mouth open.













August 2nd, 2007 at 9:28 pm
For me, I’ve never really liked women, not in a friend sorta way. Sure, I’ve had friendships with women, and still do, but they are a LOT of work. The relationships I have with guys just don’t take as much effort. I don’t have to worry about offences real or imagined. I don’t have to try and find a diplomatic way to say “yes, your ass IS huge in that skirt”. I can just hang out and enjoy what we’re doing/saying.
I’ve never imagined myself as girly BUT, I am very much female, very much a woman. And maybe that’s just it-the women I don’t like aren’t women at all-they’re girls.
My self image is more amazon, while many, MANY of the women/girls I’ve run into in life are more childlike in my eyes, and I grow tired of that quickly. I want a peer, not a responsibility, and that’s what many women have always felt like to me.
August 2nd, 2007 at 9:47 pm
I believe I would be perfectly happy in a world of women. I had a group of friends, but no “boyfriend”; my youthful experience was a lot like you described yours. I have never had a male friend, and have it mean what I want “friend” to mean.
I’m sure it’s no mistake that my husband is not a “guy’s guy.” He’s a man actually prefers to sit in the kitchen and talk than watch the game in the other room.
August 2nd, 2007 at 10:03 pm
Growing up I usually had one or two good female friends and a load of guy friends. I was always comfortable with guys. Now my closer friends are of female persuasion, although I certainly have guy friends that I can shoot the breeze with for hours on end. I don’t do air kisses, though. Like thordora says, I like me women, not girls, please.
August 2nd, 2007 at 10:22 pm
Those people with two X chromosomes (now I’m afraid to say either girls or women) are basically pretty much all right. Well, except for that betrayal thing they have going on.
August 2nd, 2007 at 10:26 pm
Ohhh… I knew Thordora would comment on this one!
Your description of your experience with women vs. men could have been written about me. [I found out later in life that men find me intimidating. Me? Hmm. I don't get that at all, but whatever.]
I am getting better about being around men, but much prefer the company of women. I find them more pleasant all around. More prone to honesty, comfortable with serious conversation, and usually not a sports analogy in sight. God, I hate sports.
August 2nd, 2007 at 10:41 pm
Dunno, Bon. I think the cliquishness and cattiness really exist. But y’know, I was deeply, brutally wounded by girls not once, not twice, but three separate times during my childhood, and after one such betrayal I sank into a depression (yes, an almost catatonic major depression) that lasted two weeks.
I will never forget it, and it most certainly colors the way I feel about women. When I find a woman I trust, the relationship is the best thing ever (and yes, we joke about how we wish we were lesbians so we could live together because we understand each other SO much better than our husbands do), but it takes me a longlonglonglonglong time to trust. And to this day I won’t get involved in a friendship triangle. I will bow out before having two good friends who are also good friends with each other.
I think girls (and women) are capable of astonishing, breathtaking cruelty. I also believe that they are capable of astonishing, breathtaking empathy, support, and love within a friendship.
So: I dunno.
August 2nd, 2007 at 11:18 pm
I like women too. My only male friends are gay. I don’t know what that is all about.
August 2nd, 2007 at 11:34 pm
you look like you are all having so much fun!
August 2nd, 2007 at 11:55 pm
Some of my women friends have been incredible, some horrible–for me, my friendships with women are either black or white: deep and enduring, or catty and superficial. And I’m not trying to be holier-than-thou, but I just don’t do catty and superficial myself, so the cattiness was usually all them. I give myself to my friendships, perhaps too much, because I have often been hurt. I’m cautious now, a little hesitant to commit myself too much to female friendships.
August 3rd, 2007 at 12:22 am
I like women too. I always have a large circle of Good Female Friends who I can depend on for, oh, just about anything. Blogging for me is an extension of my strong female bonds. I love everything about the idea of BlogHer except having to leave my cheerfully agoraphobic life for a few days.
For me - and this is my personal rule and not some sort of global thing - I think that friendships with men (barring great age differences and so on) are inherently risky and threatening to my primary relationship. Opposite sex friendships can too quickly cross over the line into the nasty grey area of emotional infidelity.
August 3rd, 2007 at 12:33 am
I go both ways.
LOL!
Some of my best friends are women, but I also have a few guy friends that I love dearly. Most of them I’ve known since childhood. All of my very close friends are just as much my husband’s friends as mine and it the same with his close friends.
The thing is, some women I simply can’t have more than a passing acquaintance with because of what Thordora mentioned. I don’t want to have to hold someone’s hand every step of the way. It’s one thing if you’re having a crisis or an illness. Sister, you can’t get rid of me then.
But I don’t want to have to worry that some off hand comment I make is going to make a girlfriend think I don’t like her anymore or I like someone else better. I just can’t deal with that high maintenance crap. And I see it time and time again when I begin to make friends with a woman and then I have to back off before she smothers me. I don’t think it’s a gender thing though, necessarily, but more of a personality thing. I have had many people tell me I’m more like a guy than a girl in my relationships with friends.
August 3rd, 2007 at 12:43 am
I love women. Love em. Love ‘em in an Adrienne Rich symbolic lesbian kinda way. I am always willing to fall in love with women and I don’t have enough fingers and toes to count the number of women that I would list as close, personal, intimate friends. Sure I have a very small handful of deep, deep bonds with men but really I’m a girlfriend’s girlfriend kinda gal.
I would have loved BlogHer–except for the feeling shy and overwhelmed part. In fact, there is a part of me that needed BlogHer and didn’t get it. Without that personal interaction, without knowing the gestures and laughs and smells and nuances of all those other women, I sometimes feel lonely and isolated out here in the ’sphere. I sometimes see cliques where cliques likely don’t exist in “real” life. In sure would’ve been nice to take all those voices that sing inside my head and turn them into flesh.
August 3rd, 2007 at 12:47 am
I get along easier with men…always have. But I prefer females. I try oh so hard to hold on to my female friends, even when the relationship is toxic…(planned a post on this subject for tomorrow…may rethink it now…)
Women fill in me some social and emotional need that I find men can’t. And I crave that contact. Desire it.
Even after having been hopelessly burned by catty, bitchy women, I still need them.
But honestly, I find on a whole, most women to enormously warm and giving…with very few bad apples.
Plus, they have boobs. And we all know I love a good set.
August 3rd, 2007 at 12:48 am
Having said all that, some women just plain annoy the hell out of me and I avoid them at all costs. I cannot handle needy, attention-starved neurotics no matter what their gender. Sorry I felt compelled to come back and say that but thinking back on my friendships, I know there have been times when I’ve been played. Now that I’m older that never happens. Either I’m wiser or they are.
August 3rd, 2007 at 12:50 am
Shit. RNM got in there between my two comments and now my second comment looks all weird hanging there. For the record, I want to grab Red Neck Mommy’s mammaries and never let go. I don’t even know her but I’m fairly confident she’s pure gold.
August 3rd, 2007 at 1:40 am
Bon! So great to see you :). I have to say, I’ve grown to appreciate my women friends only in recent years. I was one of those who felt that most girls are catty and generally not all that warm and fuzzy. Ironic, because now that I am a mom, only women understand, LOL. I met my husband when I was 14. He was my best friend first and foremost throughout all our tumultuous years of dating and breaking up and dating other people and so on. It’s what brought us back together in 1997. I’ve always had a few great girlfriends; today, I have a few irreplacable ones. But in general, I still find guys easier, per say. I’ll just leave it at that. Have so much fun with your friends!
August 3rd, 2007 at 1:55 am
Oh it’s so complicated.
I don’t dislike women; I just historically preferred men.
It seemed that most females had this secret language/code that was indecipherable to me…so much subtext and I’m all out loud. Males are like that; males got that. Males were cool with that. Females habitually gave me this sad disappointed glance and head shake. And I knew I had broken one of The Rules that females other than me all seemed to know and understand.
And oh oy can some women be manipulative, catty, cliquish…so much subtext. Oy.
A guy? I can say, “Hey catch ya later dude!”
And he takes it at face value. He doesn’t dissect when later is, what I meant, how long before he gets offended, and on and on and on.
Unless we were dating, in which case I had a nasty habit of choosing men *just like that* but that’s another post for another day.
Also if I’m REALLY honest I will say I was a total slut ho for sexual tension. BOY CRAZEEEEE. The zing of the tension of attraction added some extra fun zest to the friendship. Only acted on it once and learned a big lesson: NEVER EVER sleep with a friend. BIG MISTAKE.
Right now I am at a point in life when I don’t have many guy friends. I miss it. Miss guy friends. I had one and he moved. Bummer.
I will say this…we lost touch and not once did I wonder, “What’s wrong with me? Didn’t he like me? Where’s the love? What happened? Is he angry?”
I just knew he moved, moved on, we got busy, life happens. I was sad. I missed him. So it goes.
If a girl friend did that, I *might* wonder. Because some women will do stuff like that…get huffy and not say and never speak to you again.
I feel like I am dissing women. It’s not all or nothing or any kind of absolute.
There are some awesome women who I adore. They are pure gold.
I’ve enjoyed the last five years building female friendships.
I’m sure it’s personality—but they do seem weighted by gender. But I do like the boy friends.
August 3rd, 2007 at 1:57 am
P.S. Meant to say I like the girl friends too. LOL
Honest!
P.P.S. Also meant to say great post, great topic. Loved to hear your POV. I also come from an estrogen-laden family. Which might have something to all of this. LOL
Julie
Ravin’ Picture Maven
August 3rd, 2007 at 2:30 am
Having had the incredible relationships with women makes being in relationships with most men hard. Not enough -stuff- there, for better or for worse. But I will say that I freak about the shittiness of women, and that is a direct result of loads of bullying I endured as a young woman (loads…lots of additional therapy to do before my own kidlins hit 8…).
But I love women. On Dave Eggers scale of queerness I am a 4 out of 10…1 being perfectly straight and 10 being perfectly queer. I love women and I really love women when they can be the gorgeous supportive beings that cradle the world. I shiver at them when they are horrid.
I suspect we’d be friends.
August 3rd, 2007 at 2:40 am
this is hard, because once upon a time i was one of those girls who had boys and girls as friends. i straddled that weird fence and made it through. but as the years went on i realized that those male friends were gone or were friends because they were partners with the women in my life. why? no real answer i guess. . .
i have lots of good woman friends now, but as soon as the cattiness or fighting comes on i freak out. it is hard because as a peace maker-type people come to me to solve problems or hear their stories. this has put me in the middle of some weird ass fights between woman. i would like to say the cattiness and cliques are caricatures, stereotypes, but i just don’t know. i do know that when i see it i cringe.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:05 pm
This December will be 10 years of marriage for me. I am very blessed to still be married to the same great guy. I do believe that if it wasn’t for my great female relationships I probably would have bailed out of my marriage very early on because I was very immature and trying to prove the world that I wasn’t. Fortunately the hubby and I grew together in love and maturity. But thank God for my sisters/girlfriends.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:07 pm
This is also the tenth anniversary of us being friends, seeing as we met sometime in the wee hours of that wedding on that great cliff-side lawn. Happy anniversary to us! So I’m also happy you got married, and that we met then. And I’m even happier at how life has turned, and turned out for all in attendance. Hugs to your family from ours over here.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:43 pm
I don’t even have one male friend. My closest friend is my sister, and all my other close, dear friends are women. I have always been in very female environments - at home, at school, and at work. At school I got on with boys, but I never developed friendships with them - they didn’t provide the companionship and understanding that girls did. I think part of that is my mother always made it very clear that girls didn’t have boys as friends; boys were for love and girls for friendship. So, I was always frightened, and still am, of initiating friendships with the opposite sex for fear of that being mistaken for physical attraction.
I don’t honestly believe that I’m missing out though. My female friends are enough for me.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:15 pm
I have always preferred women as friends. Yes, some women can be catty and cliquish, it’s true. I choose not to be friends with those women. Maybe that’s why there are so few people I consider “friends” as opposed to “acquaintances”.
I do, however, find friendship with men quite refreshing sometimes. I don’t really have male friends, though - I don’t think I come off as a “guy’s girl” all that much. My husband, though, is the best friend I have ever had.
August 4th, 2007 at 2:47 am
I was always better friends with boys; I just never seemed to fit with girls and who’s friends with whom and I’m not your friend any more. Boys were also far less likely to betray you for, well, boys.
The hard part now is that I’m married, and so are most of the men I meet. I have fantastic old boy friends (not boyfriends) from years ago, but, it’s hard to meet new great man friends. When we meet couples I’m expected to hang with the wife and it’s hard to get around the jealousy thing (and I swear, I am not trolling or even flirtatious or, really, in the least bit trying to be attractive).
August 4th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
Great post. I’m sad to come to it so late. I’m totally with you. I’ve always been fine with boys and men, but my closest friends have always been girls. I’ve never really perceived the cattiness and cliquishness of which others speak, and strangely enough, my husband and I were talking about just this sort of thing a few evenings ago. He gave me the funniest compliment (?) ever. I was saying how from what I understand, other people in my high school, college, and now grad school always seem to think there’s a “cool” crowd, and I just can’t distinguish like that. I mean, I only notice when someone doesn’t have any friends, but to pick on anyone person? And how is it often the same person? Totally beyond my understanding. Anyway, my husband said he thinks I’m a lot like his brother - both of us are missing some trait of social development that makes you understand social distinctions. Like we just never figured out the classificatory rules. We like everyone.
August 7th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
bonnie… i LOVED this post… this is something that i’ve often struggled with. the fact that women aren’t more supportive of each other… you have me thinkin thinkin… perhaps i will write about this also… hmmm…
August 9th, 2007 at 2:21 am
I would say that I am easy to meet, but not to get to know.
I feel at ease with some women right away and not others. When I don’t feel that sense of ease I am more guarded. I don’t know what it is…