Wed 22 Aug 2007
cooperate this
Posted by bon under stuff to be done
[23] Comments
i need to ask.
it has been pointed out to me in the past, by a certain someone who shall remain nameless but who lives in my house, is more than two feet tall, and is not a cat, that i sometimes overreact to petty bureaucratic irritations. this person attests that it was not necessary or helpful to shout obscenities at a customs official for charging a two hundred dollar duty on the forty-dollar sweater my mother sent one Christmas when we lived abroad, despite the fact that the charge was erroneous and due to Mr. Customs Official’s misinterpretation of the English on the packing slip, that he refused to listen to polite explanations of the distinction or grant us any access to a manager, and that he acted like an supercilious twerp from the moment we set foot in the office. this little voice of reason that lives and works with me also protested, quite forcefully, when i began to mutter threats on the life of the previously lamented skanky Easyjet agent, may her tanning bed burn her to a crisp, who brazenly – stop me if you’ve heard this one before – decided that the very same ticket that had gotten us from London to Prague this past spring suddenly didn’t allow for the very same three pieces of luggage that had been no problem four days before, and that would be $125 US fuck you very much.
yeh, okay, sorry…you tried to stop me, i know…it slipped out.
i don’t deal well with finding myself suddenly on the wrong side of rules i thought i’d been following along with reasonably nicely, particularly if random or irrational or fraudulent penalties are suddenly brought to bear upon me. i feel violated – more than is reasonable, i’m sure…or i’m told – by this type of encounter. but…i live with someone who keeps his cool, for the most part, in these situations of stupidness. who focuses on getting out them without international incident, and without focusing on the powerlessness they bring to boil in me.
so the fact that Dave this nameless soul of patience is pretty pissed right now too is completely messing with my head. what i need to ask is…how would you handle this tomorrow? because me…i want to bite people. and Dave seems amenable to this, in this particular instance. and that’s just weird.
we have a car. one small car. we have been insured by the same company – a Canadian company which advertises itself as the “people’s insurer,” having grown out of a cooperative insurance group started by some friendly farmers back, oh, you know, when the world was black and white – for the thirty-one months we’ve been back in Canada, and i was insured with them for the five years previous to my departure, too. we have our life and house insurance with this company as well as our auto insurance, though, irritatingly, they don’t seem to offer a method by which we could consolidate all our many payments. the life insurance comes out of our joint account monthly. the car and house are paid, by cheque or locally at the office, in biannual installments which come essentially quarterly because upon our return to this fair land we bought a car three months before we bought a house.
scintillating, no?
so, our car insurance comes due at the end of every January and July. this July, as you may remember, was a carnival of pestilence, guests, and work. the notice came to pay our car insurance, and we ignored it for a few days. then we went away for almost a week, spent some delightful vacation time in the hospital with O, and returned home, wretched and frazzled. when we got back, though, i noted that the car insurance came due the following Saturday, so i wrote a check. check made it into the mail using the company’s self-addressed envelope on Thursday…cutting it a little close…but the policy has a stated twelve day grace period. we’ve never used the grace period previously with this company, but their policy clearly states that it exists.
i was feeling quite proud of getting the damn thing sent and paid more or less on time, given the shape we’d all been in. ah, hubris.
fast forward eleven days. i had to bring Oscar to the doctor one Wednesday afternoon for a followup after his hospitalization the month before, so i swung home from work to pick up milk and some toys for my bag before going to his sitter’s to collect him. there was a message on the phone from the local office of the insurance company – a disembodied voice informed us that our insurance was about to run out, tomorrow, at the end of the aforementioned grace period. thinking how lucky it was that i’d happened home at an hour when their office was still open for business, i called back, thinking “oh, there must just be some mistake with the check.” i got a different agent than the one who’d called me, but no matter, she pulled our account up. no check. i said i’d sent it.
she said “when?” i said, Thursday, July 26th.
she said “where?” i said, to your Guelph, Ontario office, where the self-addressed envelope that came with my policy notice said to send it. duh.
she said “why?”
i started to think we were playing a very tiresome game of the five Ws, but explained that i’m in the habit of sending checks to the address that’s stamped on the envelopes that come soliciting them. she asked why i hadn’t dropped the check off at the local office. i explained that i work fulltime and hadn’t had the time off to take an hour off to drive to their office, wait in their foyer, and pay in person…plus they gave me that nice self-addressed envelope so i’d thought perhaps i should use it. she said something about it taking a really long time for things to get all the way to Guelph. i said nothing, but ruminated on the Christmas cards i sent my aunties in Guelph last year, which got sent a week before Christmas and were still in their hot little hands when i talked to them Christmas day, despite the holiday rush.
i started to think that perhaps this was not going so well, after all. i asked if i should call Guelph. the agent on the telephone assured me that she would follow up with a call, so they could “look for the check as it’s probably in their system somewhere” and would notify me if there appeared to be any problem or if our insurance for some reason was lining up to be interrupted. i decided that was great, as i had a baby to pick up and doctor’s appointment to take him to.
this was two weeks ago tomorrow. we came home tonight to a notice, from Guelph, dated ten days ago, telling us our car insurance has expired. or rather, it expired back on Saturday, July 28th. and that we can “apply for reinstatement”, but in the meantime, are shit out of luck in terms of any form of auto coverage. there has been no phone message, or even call display showing the number of the local agent. and that there will be an unspecified penalty.
thus, the residents of the crib, the tall and the small usually cranky about shit like this anyway, are pissed. because we sent the check and it had fourteen days to arrive and clearly local agent chick never called to follow up or notify them to look for it and now we’re out on our ear. despite the fact that we’ve never had a late payment. despite the fact that the envelope they sent was, erm, addressed to Guelph and if sending the frigging check to Guelph is not an effective system then for chrissake don’t stick their motherfucking address on the return envelope, people!
and we will apparently have to pay for the privilege of having them take us back, despite their rather inefficient system and its presumption that i’d be safer to take an hour off work to pay their damn bill because nothing actually clears their offices in normal postal delivery time.
we’re also grateful. that we haven’t backed into anyone while we unwittingly had, you know, no insurance.
i know this isn’t food, or anything. it’s car insurance, not a matter of foul injustice or life and death…much as i’d like to spit bubonic plague all over little miss “don’t call Guelph, we’ll call you,” i know what it is to be busy and work and let things slip. that’s where this all started. but…we cut the deadline close but follow their process with two weeks to spare, and we end up unable to drive, and having to pay a penalty to reapply to be insured, despite a perfect customer history? even though their agent and their offices’ disarray appear to be at least in part the reason that the insurance was cut off? i would have given the agent my credit card number for the damn payment while i had her on the phone, had she indicated in any way that this was a possibility. but nope. bah.
we live in a small enough city that we can walk Oscar to the sitter’s tomorrow and still likely walk into work on time. and it’s not January and brassmonkey cold out there. these are all precious blessings, yes…and i know it. people would give teeth for my problems.
but still, how would you handle this? what would you say, tomorrow, if you were walking my lazy ass to work and picking up the phone to call the insurance company?
should i try my best to kick their asses? or am i wrong to even think they’re being unreasonable in the first place?
i asked. i can take it. please reflect.




August 22nd, 2007 at 2:22 am
Um, yeah – my husband is famous for getting his way with such agencies. This sh…er, stuff happens to the best of us, to ALL of us (even them!), and to be so darn hardsmoked about it is a wee bit, er, rediculous. I have a hot temper and often handle these situations with flailing papers and spittle coming out of my mouth. My more even but hard-nosed husband handles things with in a stealthy effective way. Thank goodness for that, because if I were in your current pair of shoes, I be spittling mad. Sure hope this works out and fast, Bon. Oy!
August 22nd, 2007 at 2:28 am
That sounds like bullshit to me. But car insurance… they know they’re in the driver’s seat on this one and can totally take you for a ride (pun intended).
I can’t believe I’m in the same town as the stinkers and there’s not a damn thing I can do. Or is there? Let me know…
If I were in your situation, I would escalate escalate escalate until I got someone who could actually do anything about this. Your history and attempt to pay on time should do something, but you need to talk to the right person. If someone starts talking crap about their hands being tied cut them off and ask to speak to their manager.
And on a side note, as sorry as I am for the shit you’re dealing with, I really enjoyed this post and all its expletives.
August 22nd, 2007 at 2:37 am
First, check with your bank and see if the check has cleared your account. Then, I would call and request to speak to a manager and tell them you want to file a complaint. This typically gets their attention. Then explain the situation. If the check hasn’t cleared your bank then offer to pay with a credit card but explain you will not pay the reinstatement fee or any penalties because this is their issue. If they continue to give you problems I would file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. That is usually enough to make them want to resolve your complaint right then. Good luck!
August 22nd, 2007 at 2:41 am
first of all, check to see if your check has been cashed. Next, call your local agent. Try to resolve it through her. Tell her you understood that it was fine because she promised to get back to you otherwise, and she didn’t. Play nice cop at first, and ask her to please take care of it. Give her (or work out with her)a time when you expect to hear back from her – by 3pm that same day, perhaps. If you have not heard back, call and be more firm. Be clear that you expect her to solve the problem, and that you are not willing to pay any fees to be reinstated. That you would have gladly paid by credit card had you known the check did not go through. Again stress her promises to you. If there is a manager you need to speak to, ask for him/her. If the local agency cannot or willnot help you, then go to the parent company. Explain what happened at the local level. File a complaint. State very clearly what you expect to happen (your check is cashed or somehow you pay the normal amount, insurance is continuous, no extra fees). Always ask to speak to a manager or supervisor if the person claims they cannot help you. The schmoes who answer the phone are usually unable to do anything. Don’t mess around with them once they tell you no. Keep going up the ladder. Always write down the name of who you spoke to, the time and the date.
Good luck.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:14 am
I would say that as the check was mailed on time, before the expiration of the grace period, it is their responsibility not only to find said check but also to reinstate you without a fee.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:30 am
I think your anger is perfectly normal. After all, they are not just being inefficient – they are subtly calling you a liar. I woudl ahte that, too.
I hope it works out. The one time a large company made my husband really angry, he got the phone number of somebody at headquarters, explained the problem and said, calmly, “You don’t want to correct this because you don’t make a lot of money off of me. That’s true – I don’t have a lot of money. I do have a lot of time and your phone number.” Problem was solved the next day.
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:44 am
I would do exactly as painted maypole says. Perfect. And yes, you have a right to be angry. As I see it, you always have a right to be angry when some other Fucker’s mistake impacts on your life and they’re not attempting to fix it.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:45 am
I am no help whatsoever because I’d totally be kicking asses a la Steel Magnolia (that is, Scarlett-style with my best Jooojah accent, which I can pull out so freaking nicely you’d never know I talk like a Kennedy five years post shanghai-ing the rest of the time).
Or…like SM said.
GOOD LUCK and report back!!
August 22nd, 2007 at 9:27 am
Good advice from all. My two cents –
1. Make a list of notes about what actions you’ve taken so you have a crib sheet when they try to get all squidgey and cagey and you want to disembowel them.
2. Make a list of things you really want them to hear from you ( I often get ranting and forget key things like “I am a good customer,” and “Your actions don’t reflect the values of ytour organisation,” while I’m telling them to fuck off.)
3. Don’t start with the local agent – you’ve already been there – call the regional office and ask for an executive or the complaints office, and if they don’t help you ask specifically for a rep (named) and number to call whoever is appropriate.
4. Call other insurance companies, and ask for a quote on a combo policy and tell them you are about to ditch your current company. Those post-cooperative agencies can be assholes.
5. Yell and / or cry as the spirit moves you, just put the phone on mute if you can so only the nameless one can hear the obscenitites.
6. Make it easy for them to fix it. This comes from my MOM – if you give someone the space to save face and not feel like a loser, usually they take it.
7. Call the Insurance Board in your neck of the woods and complain. The insurers are governed and have loads of rules etc that it sounds like they’ve already broken.
I find that the endorphins are good if you can approach it like a mental exercise – think of the conflict like mental chocolate sauce.
Break a leg!
August 22nd, 2007 at 11:29 am
No more advice left to give – everyone above got it all already.
But heck yeah do you have the right to be angry! This is an incredibly obnoxious waste of your time. My blood pressure rose just reading it. But like a pp said above, sorry you have to deal with this but it was fun to read about.
August 22nd, 2007 at 11:54 am
i think you definately have the right to be angry….
in our relationship, i’m the dave. people can do me wrong and i don’t much mind – i’m not gonna let it ruin my day. i can generally keep my cool about things. and it makes it easier for me to do so because i have my super-husband sticking up for all that’s good and right and fair…
but, there is always a boiling point. and for me, this situation would have me reach it. it’s not just the fact that you’re paying for a service and should get it. it’s the whole damn process you’ve been through.. you’ve done everything right… and everything you thought you needed to – and were told you needed to – and still, no frikkin car insurance… smoke would have been coming out of my ears just reading it if you weren’t so damn funny!!!
perhaps it’s not a bad idea to change providers – but i know what a helluva job that will all be. i think you’ve had some pretty good advice up there…
talk to someone at the head office. explain that although you’ve been a customer with them for some years and have always been happy with their service, you’re fustrated with how the system hasn’t worked for you this time. and, don’t expect anyone to do you any favours. if they say they’ll call you, call them the next day anyway. follow up on it. it’s a little pessimistic, but i tend to find in these situations you can’t rely on anyone. so, do the work yourself…
and, since dave is ready to bite people too, i’ll be the annoyingly cool calm and collected person (don’t you hate that??) being angry is not going to fix the problem… but it does make for great reading!!
thanks again bon! and goodluck! let us know how it goes, won’t you??
August 22nd, 2007 at 12:23 pm
I am SOOOOOO glad we have a local insurer. SOOO glad.
that said-switch to State Farm. My father, and brother have been insured by them for YEARS with never a problem. But make sure someone at the Cooperators knows exactly WHY you are switching-I’m sure you can get a pic of the check you sent from your bank.
And it does NOT take that long to get anything to Guelph. I had something sent to PA in less than a week last month. (although this lends credence to my hatred for Guelph)
Argh. I’d be pissed as HELL.
August 22nd, 2007 at 12:34 pm
I hate insurance companies…we are entering month 4 of arguing about a payment due for damages. Just out to screw you…
But anyway.
I would take a practical but firm approach and fight it, but it usually works better if you don’t scream (although I want to, always) and threaten to take business elsewhere. Our local agent is such a kissass, but doesn’t get anything really done. But the adjuster moves when he calls. But then he doesn’t call again. My MIL is an agent and she gets all sorts of stuff done for her clients. I think it just depends on who you have and if they are willing to go to bat for you.
Look elsewhere. If they can’t understand this slip up (and that you have proof that it wasn’t your fault), you will continue to have problems with this insurer. I suspect there is an asterisk next to your name in the file for “non-payment” anyway…
I don’t think this helped, but I just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you!
August 22nd, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Insurance CAN be a matter of life or death. I was hit by someone with no insurance, who could not pay me for my injury, which is lifelong and debilitating.
OR, it could bankrupt you, should you kill or injure someone severely, you could go to jail.
So it is not a small matter that this company left you hanging in the wind without even telling you.
Me? Personally, I would tear them a new one locally, then run it allllllll the way up the food chain to whoever is in charge.
This is plain wrong, when you followed all their rules.
Disclaimer: I am a hothead, from a long line of hotheads.
August 22nd, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Everyone has already given you all the advice you need, but I will say that I got angry and oh so frustrated just reading your post. What’s more infuriating than a disembodied voice on the phone that you can’t convince to do your bidding no matter how hard you try? (okay, lots of things are worse, but still).
I’d go with the flies to honey approach to begin with, and save the biting (sounds …. germy) for subsequent failures.
August 22nd, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Well, everyone has, as Gwen notes, given you good advice already. Let me add that: rules notwithstanding, and ‘there’s nothing we can do’ notwithstanding, if you keep your head but remain firm, you can almost always get your way. Particularly if you threaten to leave the company. (Pynchon resolved a major cell phone carrier dispute this way right after Xmas, and I was ASTONISHED at the concessions he wrung out of those bastards at Telus.)
Pynchon says, if they won’t put you through to a manager, be a total total dick on the phone. They’ll put you through. Then turn it to sweetness and light when the manager gets on the line. It’s effective because it’s disconcerting.
August 22nd, 2007 at 2:11 pm
I’m with Mrs. Chicken. I’d be kicking asses and taking names. Of course, you need to be polite, but sometimes vinegar gets the job done better than honey.
(I’m assuming they haven’t cashed your check. If so, I’d say you’re still covered no matter what they say.)
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Kick ass Bon; Call Guelph. I’ve gone up against student loan, insurance and phone companies before, and as long as you have dates and such under your belt, you’re normally good. Apologize to the poor rookie who had the misfortune to answer your call and explain that you’re PO’d and would appreciate a supervisor IMMEDIATELY. The poor schmucks are usually more than happy to oblige. I know this because of my call center experience.
Best of Luck!!!
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:54 pm
I’m annoyed enough after reading your post that I will call Guelph, pretending to be you, just for the satisfaction of peeling a strip off someone.
I’ve had many such issues recently – all related to the new house purchase – and sadly I have to say that the only thing you do is be mean, and persistent. I will give you one piece of advice – I worked in a call centre doing internet tech support for two years and we were allowed to end the call (i.e. hang up) as soon as the customer swore. So don’t swear, even though judging from this post you are very good at it.
And I echo everyone’s very good advice – write down everything, who you talked to, when, what they said, etc. The more facts you can throw at them, the quicker they’ll back off.
Good luck!
August 23rd, 2007 at 1:33 am
I get riled up by injustices like this too. Gah! Maybe you can go with another company that’s nicer.
August 23rd, 2007 at 2:11 am
I would be super pissed off. I used to remain calm in these tyoes of situations, but I have started becoming a beast on the phone.
August 23rd, 2007 at 6:02 pm
I’m pretty sure in a few hundred years, when someone writes a book about our ancient civilation, they’re going to have whole chapters devoted to the corrupt organized crime ring that was the insurance companies.
You have gotten some really sound advice. Clever readers you have. If all else fails, lose your mind. Go nuts, Mrs. Chicken style. Scare the pants off the sniveling, low level, mail room clerk that answers the phones. It might not get you anywhere with the whole insurance situation, but it’ll surely be therapeutic to release all of that unhealthy frustration.
August 28th, 2007 at 2:31 am
OK, I so love the way you write when you are grouchy that I kinda selfishly want you to be grouchy more often.
As for the Co-operaters? Shame on them and their small farming town marketing exploitative ways!