Sat 24 May 2008
aye, there’s the rub
Posted by bon under mama-baby stuff
every morning since last Monday, Oscar has slept past seven o’clock.
this is a first…a sort of shocking, oh sweet merciful Jeebus thankyou kind of first, one his father and i - mostly me - have spent the last two years sacrificing small imaginary goats to the gods for. Dave will say he’s something of a morning person, but this comes from growing up in a crack-of-dawn fishing family, where copious amounts of coffee and silent focus on the task at hand were hallmarks of early morn. babies do not provide their own premade coffee when they wake you up at ungodly hours…a design flaw that somebody should really rectify soon. and they tend to like to be, erm, talked to and engaged with, activities requiring a level of consciousness neither adult in this house aspires to before seven bells. or nine, if you’re me.
but i’ll take seven over five-thirty any day, and thank you for it.
parents whose small children have not naturally or easily fallen into sleep rhythms copasetic with the adult body clocks in the house are easy to spot. they have a frayed look, and tend to guard their kids’ sleep fiercely, dragons at the mysterious magic cave from whence peace comes. hyper-alert to all threats, they will cheerfully smother small neighbourhood puppies whose barking threatens to shave fifteen precious minutes off their already uncivilized wakeup. they unplug phones, and shout curses at early-morning garbage collectors. and at those odd times when Junior does miraculously slumber like a civilized human, their jubilation is matched only by their desperation to replicate whatever happenstance of weather, blankets, and tea leaves marked the occasion. they will happily strangle themselves so as to avoid interference with the blessed event.
or, erm, at least i will.
so it is that i have noticed, this past week, that gods willing to accept small imaginary goat sacrifices have a rather ironic sense of humour. Oscar has been sleeping, yes. quite beautifully. Dave too. but i have, you see, a wretched, hacking cough that has - combined with antibiotics i am on to rid me yet again of some skanky and insistent parasite that may increase risk of premature labour and must thus be vigilantly and regularly flushed from my system - made sleep sketchy and woken me almost every hour on the hour all night, every night for the past week. and it is worst in the morning. so about 5:30 am - or earlier, on lucky days - my body bolts awake, trying to rid itself loudly of a lung or two, while my trained mother’s ear harkens like a hunting dog for the sound of my offspring. since his usual peeping is not forthcoming, i panic, sure that i am about to wake him and thus destroy this fortuituous pattern of decent sleep that i just know i’m going to enjoy if i can ever actually shake my own pestilence, so i chug water and stuff the entire pillow down my throat in hopes of muffling myself. and then i lie there, utterly awake, eyes wide, listening for telltale “mama!” that will break the spell and doom me to never, ever sleeping in again.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
do your kids sleep in? do you drug them? do you know why? do you let them get up by themselves, and from what age?
and…out of curiosity, do you have kids who share a room? did the transition impact the older child’s sleep significantly? do you need a non-cry-through-the-night baby in order to make this work? would having said baby next door in an utterly unsoundproof house be any better? tips? advice from those who have survived two early morning creatures in one house?
i can’t believe i’ve used this many words before seven am on a Saturday. shakes head. coughs. swallows tongue and cocks head, listening.













May 24th, 2008 at 7:59 am
I’m about to make waffles, but my vocabulary is limited otherwise this early.
Early for us is 6:30. We’re lucky we’ve always had really good sleepers-none of that 5am crap. They’re up most days between 7 & 8, although they have gone longer occasionally. They’re in bed around 8 most nights.
The ladies share a room-I was terrified about it since i never did, but was assured it would be ok. We had Ros sleep in another room until she slept through the night and Viv was moved to a bed, then we moved her over. And it went great. Never a problem, yet. I think we’re lucky though.
May 24th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Swee’pea has always slept until a humane hour in the morning, but as an infant was always up late at night and he still wakes at least once every night (and comes into our bed). Bedtime is still a pretty drawn out affair and sometimes iyt’s 9:30 before he’s asleep although we start the bath at 7.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Thanks Bon, that made me laugh. I am with out feeling the least me bad, crawling out of bed at 9:30 on a loverly Saturday morn. And the only thing good about this retched old small house we’re borrowing is that it takes Hoodini to get the door knob to function on our bedroon door.
I don’t feel the least bit bad becasue I’ve paid my dues, so I feel I deserve it. As you will too, when your boy reaches the age to get the Cherrios out by himself and learns how to operate the remote. And the second one is easier, they have the older brother to reach the morning feast, so peace comes at an earlier age.
I am lucky in that Martin is a true morning person, and the pitter patter of little feet usually only creep out the door after his own.
Reiley, probably 4 when I no longer worried what he would get into. Owen, 3, because he had big brother who was not yet old enough to know how to sleep in. Reiley is mr dependable.
Thanks for the giggle over the morning coffee.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:13 am
My German Shep wakes me up when she has to go outside. She’s learned the quickest way to wake me is to bite my hand - not enough to break the skin but enough to pinch.
Not the same thing I know.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:35 am
We spent over a year systematically going in later and later in the morning, making our first wait be 3 minute intervals until we finally had him sleeping til 7. He is 9 now & a morning person, but cheerfully gets up and reads, eats cereal and one of us stumbles along, tussles his hair and waves as he skips to the bus stop at 7:30am. We did the same trick with the other two who are younger, gradually allowing more time and eventually they learned to play in their rooms (one in his crib, we drop board books in at night), until somewhere between 7-8 they hear the shower or the bus and call out “food, hungy!” at which point whoever isn’t showering opens wides the gate for the chaos to begin (caffeine already being established.) It took a while, but we like it this way, keeps the littles separate for a bit longer. It’s hard to place nice all day.
May 24th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
poor you with the coughing!
i never had the boys in the same room, but ben was four by the time jack came along. the good news? jack was the most awesome sleeper ever — slept through the night, in his crib, at eight weeks old — and has been sleeping through the night ever since.
for me, the second was the charm vis a vis sleeping. well deserved, i think, after ben, my nonsleeper!
May 24th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
My non-sleeping baby slept in the room adjacent (with connecting double door and all) to my big girl and she NEVER woke up. Now, they voluntarily sleep in the same room and it’s THE. CUTEST.
May 24th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
funny you should ask. we have 13 month old twins that sleep in the same room (of course). they are habitual 5 a.m. wakers with very little interest in going back down. today it was 4 a.m. for one, then 5 for the other. thank you, molars. we will be glad to meet the molar when it finally comes through. they are not natural sleep lovers, rather natural energy bunnies. so, i would resort to drugging them if i thought it would help. instead we hope for the best and take it a day at a time.
the amazing thing is they do not wake each other in the night if there is a cry session. only in the morning. that is the sucky part. so, we are proof you can survive two early morning wakers for 13 months. i will get back to you around the 24 mark. hopefully by then they are like your little guy and embracing 7 a.m. as a fair wake time.
May 24th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
My daughter will sleep in until 8:00 a.m. (sometimes even 9:00), going to bed around 8:30 or 9:00 p.m.. Yeah she’s a superstar!
Oh right, the real story - I go in to her room and lay down with her when she pretty much routinely wakes up around 4:00 a.m. Then she’ll fall back asleep. Of course, sleeping in a twin bed with a frantic toddler sleeper as my belly starts getting bigger and bigger will likely become harder and harder.
We plan on keeping the new baby in our room for awhile and then eventually having them share a room.
I’m going to keep up with these comments though for advice.
Hope the coughing clears up.
May 24th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
I am that parent of which you speak. Pie almost always sleeps past 7, but Bub has been an early waker since he was about 3 months old. The clock in his room has fixed it, though - it’s set 15 minutes ahead (because 6:45 was a more realistic goal than 7) and he waits until the first number is a “7″ before he gets up. As a result, he’s training himself to sleep later, too - he often sleeps past 7 these days, which he would never have done before.
May 24th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
After Porgie turned a year, she FINALLY started sleeping until 7:00 am. 5 months later, Izzy was born. He wakes up every morning at 6:00 am. So, I am back to square one on the sleep front. I wish there was some magic potion to make babies sleep until a decent hour, but there isn’t.
My kids don’t share a room, but their rooms share a wall. So, if one child cries, the other child wakes up. It is frustrating. Porgie is getting better about ignoring Izzy’s cries, and returning to sleep. Izzy, on the other hand, never returns to sleep without a helping hand (nursing, rocking, patting, etc.)
May 24th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
I think sleep patterns are inherent. Mine are late sleepers. They’d sleep until nine if they could. Want to come stay here?
May 24th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
The May Queen was so excited that today would be the first day of summer vacation and we could both “sleep in”. She of course was up by 6:30, when on school days I’m usually dragging her out of bed at 7. But she has, as she’s gotten older, slept later, so there is hope for you.
May 24th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Bon, sometimes I feel compelled to write you a check for making me laugh. I will never let you stop writing. Not just for the laughs, but everything, you know…
well, I have kids who sleep in. We’ve never been the “routine” people and the gals just go to sleep when we go; and sometimes they even sleep after we have conked out from brutal fatigue. So… we do not get private time in the evening unless we stay up way late, but in the morning I get a chance to clear my brain before they get up, anytime betw 8am to 1030am. I let them get up by themselves. Never force sleeptimes or naptimes.
I think everyone has a natural sleep rhythm. Thankfully theirs have been good. And they are pretty flexible kids. I am luck, I know.
I’ve always co-sleep with my babies and that has always worked out nicely, but every kid is different. I have heard of babies who despise any bodily contact, any tiny sound… I know you are looking ahead and planning but unless that baby factory sends you a manual in advance… I would say dream a lot and just groove along.
Hope that cough gets better. Big hugs.
May 24th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
You know, I never thought about it until I read it right now, but certainly almost-4-years old is enough to learn to grind beans and set up the coffee maker? Yes? Agreed.
Bella has never, ever slept. Ever. As an infant she was a 30 minute napper, if I was lucky. When most kids are dropping nap three for a two nap day (and by two naps I mean one of 90 minutes and one of two hours or something unholy), Bella ceased to nap altogether. Suffice it to say, at an early age, with her entire pediatric practice’s blessing, we got her sleeping through the night. She goes to bed promptly at 8, sleeps 10-11 hours, always. If she goes to bed later, she still wakes up at the same time, and stumbles through a day with no naps.
We’re all convinced she’s going to be one of those people who only need 5 hours of sleep a night. I’m a bit jealous, and incredibly worried for my own state of mind.
May 25th, 2008 at 12:04 am
We haven’t been blessed with fantastic sleepers. Our kids wake early, all of them — and they have needed to be well over a year before they will consider waking less than 5x/night. Grr.
Right now we have our 3-year-olds and our 5-year-old in one room. We set an alarm for AFTER they normally wake on their own, and tell them they are not allowed to leave their room until the alarm sounds. They can read or play quietly, but that’s it.
Our 1.5-year-old only just started sleeping thru the night when we moved her into her own room, a couple weeks ago. I love sleeping. This is the greatest.
For a couple months, at one point, my older kids were sleeping until 9 a.m.!!! I have no idea why or what broke the spell. I am desperate to get back to that, but right now I am thankful when they go until 7, because it has been well before 6 until recently.
May 25th, 2008 at 12:26 am
she does not sleep in, and i’d totally drug her if i could. but only on fridays.
May 25th, 2008 at 1:05 am
Bon, I hope the antibiotics work quickly, and that you feel better soon…
We are lucky enough to have our girlies sleep in their own rooms, and probably couldn’t manage it any other way. My second child was a dreadful sleeper– hungry every hour, she was so, so tiny– and so she and I slept together for endless months, while my husband tried to catch some sleep on the couch!! At seven years old, she now snores loudly, and wakes EARLY… so sharing a bedroom with her would be no picnic. She is also the child prone to “night terrors”, which is a particularly nasty– but fairly common– phenomenon. My first and third child have been pretty good sleepers, but do need quiet in order to remain that way!
We don’t generally let kids under the age of five or six get up without us in the mornings… Too much potential for serious mischief!! And, I couldn’t sleep, wondering what they could be up to, anyway.
When it comes to sleep? I think most families just do anything and everything they can to catch enough zzzz’s…
Love to you– CGF xo
May 25th, 2008 at 1:28 am
My daughter came home when both she and my son were a year old. After a few months with me for bonding, we put them in the same room. I thought it would be a disaster and it’s fine. They hardly ever wake each other up when there’s night crying.
Unfortunately (for me) they are exuberant and cheerful six oclock wakers. They play and talk to each other until 7 am (when I am human), but not quietly. More like a herd of cows and horses and elephants, maybe mammoths?
May 25th, 2008 at 1:30 am
p.s. Feel better soon.
May 25th, 2008 at 4:31 am
When Monkey was an early riser, we could bribe her with cartoons while she sat in our bed. And we got another thirty minutes of slumber. Can’t help with the rest of it, sorry.
The gods are cruel cruel creatures. I hope the cough makes for the exit pronto and you get to enjoy that lovely morning sleep.
May 25th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
That cough sounds very unpleasant. Heres hoping it and the nasty bugs are gone soon.
Sleep — My 2yr11mos boy was a horrible sleeper as an infant. Since 2yrs old, sleeping well at night often refuses naps. I started sleeping better once he could make his own way to our bed when needed (ususally ~ 4am but sometimes 1am). Now I find when I wake up I don’t remember when he hopped into our bed. So, while I often get to sleep till 8 (sometimes 9 on weekends), my bed is very crowded.
May 25th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
BubTar is what we consider an early riser. He’s up by 6 or 6:30 most days, if he sleeps until the alarm goes off (around 7:20), it usually means he’s getting sick! LOL.
KayTar is a late sleeper. She’ll sleep until 9:30 or 10 most days, but there is a trade off. She is a night owl, up until 9:30 on days when she doesn’t nap and 10:30-12am on days she does nap.
They don’t room together, although we tried it briefly. It was just too difficult with their very different sleep schedules.
May 26th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Isaac used to be a 530 riser, too. One day he just started sleeping later - I’d love to be able to tell you what I did, but I don’t know…
We do have to make sure his daytime nap is no more than 2 hours though, or all hell breaks loose. And bedtime is 8 for a 630 / 7 wake up.
Usually. Both boys were up at 545 on Sunday - and stayed up. My nerves.
May 26th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
The best investment of my adult life has been an alarm clock for Gilbert’s room. He was a 5-5:30 a.m. riser for the first years of his life. 5 a.m. was doable, but it was those 4:45 or *gasp* 4:30 a.m. mornings that killed us.
When he was about 2 1/2 or 3 we got him an alarm clock and told him that he needed to stay in bed until his clock makes music. After a few weeks of testing and struggle, he came to accept the new rule and I think that it has been as good for HIM as it is for US; he started sleeping better through the night (no getting out of bed to see if it is morning yet) because it made boundaries clearer for him.
Good luck!
May 26th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
The sleep gods have fucked with us royally over the years. We’re in a good place now, with older children who sleep heavily until they are ready to wake up and a toddler who finally (finally!) goes to bed agreeably and doesn’t wake until 8 a.m. Unless we’re camping; then she’s up with the birds.
Once they were about 4 we would let our kids get up and come downstairs on their own to watch TV on weekends. The rule was that they were to wake us once they felt ready for breakfast. That seemed to afford us an extra 1/2 hr to 1 hour of sleep on the weekends. We still get up with E. as she’s only 2. Funny thing, I don’t seem to need as much sleep as I used to. It only took 9 years of sleep deprivation to get there. Good luck to you!
May 26th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Bon,
My Isaac (3 1/2) has also been sleeping until 7ish lately (miracles of miracles), after we struggled for years to have him sleep until 6:00… just happened and we are not sure why. We also limit his daytime nap to 2 hours, bedtime 7:30.
Angus (1 1/2)is still very unpredictable. His rumblings do not wake his big brother though. We just put a digital display clock in his room and we are hoping he’ll become familiar with the number 7:00 displayed on the ceiling above his crib.
7:00 would be very sweet indeed.
May 26th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Katie woke every hour or two until she was six months old. One night when I had given up on ferber, weissbluth, and the no-cry people and I had no hope left, she slept. Ten blissfull hours from 8pm - 6pm. That lasted about a year and just before she turned two she gave up napping. That was fine until her sister came along and she started waking up at night again.
Oh sorry, did you ask for advice? I’m working on bribery now with mixed results.
I’ll just be praying for you ok?
Kids sleep is like this magical thing for me as you describe - I would do anything if could just figure out what it is.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:38 am
My second babe slept in our room until she was about 3 months old. Her older sister was about 2 when we moved them in together and while the crying in the night may have bothered her at first, she got over it quickly and slept through the sleep training of the second rather nicely.
Also, my kids hardly ever sleep in, and when they do, I only sort of enjoy it because I am always worried something is wrong…the sighs of motherhood.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
The PURE UNADULTERATED JOY of older kids is this rule:
DO NOT wake the parents or we will all be very, very sorry.
They know how to play in their playroom, and even get the cereal box to snack out of (we store cereal in airtight plastic containers due to where we live).
We regularly get 7 a.m.
My kids are free from out-of-crib age on. But the sleeping in happens from 3+.
I do have two early risers, who do not and never have shared a room.
We have the babies sleep in our room, so that didn’t seem to disturb my older daughter.
She tends to sleep like a rock, though. And was very good about being fairly quiet while baby was sleeping—although I never set a quiet precedent for baby sleeping, and as it happens/b/c of that my younger one sleeps through most things.
GL! Get well!
May 28th, 2008 at 11:07 am
I’m confused. Why would anyone want to sleep past 7:00 am?
May 29th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
I’m in a little bit of hell right now with the sleeping thing. The Boy used to sleep till 7 or 7:30am. Since the Little Guy came along, he’s up at about 6am. The Little Guy wakes up around 5am. He MIGHT go back to sleep sometimes, but as soon as the Boy wakes up, so does he. Or so do I. Regardless, my day starts at 5am, and I NEED it to be a minimum of 6:30am. Preferably 7am. Please send help. Sorry no advice here.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:41 am
Here’s the post I wrote on room sharing. http://wheelsonthebus.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/together-at-last/
Honestly, it has been fantastic for them. They don’t chat before bed anymore, although tonight for the first time Ben said “Goodnight, Zach!” across their beds. It leads to some issues when one is in an early waking phase, but we have a white noise machine that helps over that hump. (I have found that early/late risings go in cycles.) And, since the older one can read a clock and knows he’s not allowed out of bed till 7, the last week or two the younger one waits till his brother tells him it is time.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:29 am
Hey Bon,
7 eh? Loving 7. Would LOVE 7. We have somewhere between 5 and, if we’re really lucky, 6:30. That’s Aoife usually, Euey sometimes makes it to nearly 7:30. They sleep in little rooms right next to each other (with the doors open) and don’t wake each other unless one is screaming blue murder. We’re thinking if baby 3 comes along we’ll put them in the same room. Have heard good things about it.
As for what time kids get up generally, from talking to others I’m pretty sure it depends a lot on bed time. Everyone I know who gets their kids off at a decent hour (ours are between 7:30 and 8pm) pays in the morning. Everyone who has a good sleep in pays for it with no time to themselves at night. It’s a trade off, can’t have it both ways.
Anyway, I’ glad for you that you have sleep-ins. Hope they last.
June 2nd, 2008 at 4:49 pm
I am with you on defending a sleeping child and bolting awake with ears poised. My gaze alone could kill any noisemaker within several blocks of our house when my baby was sleeping. I realized–too late–that I had trained him to fall asleep nursing and it took at least a year to get out of that habit. At almost 4, he still asks for me to sit with him for a little bit after we turn the light off. If we have another–two miscarriages recently–I’ll be more careful about how he/she falls asleep.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:24 am
We’ve been lucky that Q sleeps fairly well at night. However, he’s losing the afternoon nap, sigh. And it’s making his night sleep shorter, not longer, sadly. Fingers crossed that it improves.